Why Independent Workshops Must Embrace EVs with Dan Mayo | Ep. 3

:: 00:01

Andy Brooke

Hi, Dan, and welcome to the Spanner in the Works podcast. So if you want to give yourself a quick introduction.

:: 00:07

Dan Mayo

running my own business since: 2011

:: 00:29

2011, so that's really early adopter stuff, that for EV. So what was your background then? What got you into the whole EV thing?

:: 00:38

Dan Mayo

When I first started the company, I was a master tech at Audi. been there for eight years and just decided going to set up on my own, set the business up, and then just sort followed all the latest trends where I come from sort of working on the latest vehicles, like the high-end stuff, so you could see what was coming in the industry in the future. And we need to sort of, to be competitive, you need to matching what the main dealers are doing.

:: 01:02

Andy Brooke

So you you mentioned Audi. So were you an an apprentice at Audi then?

:: 01:28

Dan Mayo

No, I went to Audi: 2001

After working there for a couple of years, they asked me to go go ahead and start doing the Master Tech training. So went ahead and done Audi Master Tech, qualified as an Audi Master Tech at the age of 21.

So one of the youngest Audi Master Techs out there.

Andy Brooke

Wow, that is young.

:: 01:36

Dan Mayo

it's think I think that record's been beaten now, obviously. But it's quite interesting at the time. Most Master Techs that we've been doing the training with were sort of getting towards the end of their careers um with their experience.

So it was quite interesting being really young and doing that.

:: 01:49

Andy Brooke

So did you did you do EV training then at Audi at the time?

:: 01:51

Dan Mayo

his company up, I got sort of: 2015

:: 02:17

Andy Brooke

no of course not

:: 02:20

Dan Mayo

So one we sat around doing not a lot with EVs for a long time. And then I got invited to do some EV training for a company.

So was working with a company doing the IMI qualifications for EVs. and We worked with some major manufacturers as well doing their training programs. And quite interesting seeing what was being developed. And at the time, because we was doing lots of stuff with manufacturers,

we could see how every different manufacturer done something different. And there was lots of interesting ways of how an EV is put together.

:: 02:54

Andy Brooke

So it's a bit like when they brought video recorders out and stuff like that, you know, they had Betamax and they had VHS and they had, you know, all these different things. So they're all working on, you're saying and he's all working on slightly different ways to do, to skin a cat kind of thing.

:: 03:07

Dan Mayo

Yeah, that's why it's still like now with EVs. You'll do your level twos, threes, fours, And then you'll get one in and you like open it up and it's not like you've been trained in a um on your training courses or manufacturer training. Everyone's doing something slightly different. the new Porsche battery, 800 volt battery, charges ah as it splits itself in two. so charges at two 400 volt batteries and reconnects itself back up as an 800 volt battery to provide the drive.

:: 03:36

Andy Brooke

So most batteries, what you're saying there, are 400 volts, and the Porsche have just gone down a completely different route.

:: 03:42

Dan Mayo

Yes, in what way everyone's trying their own differently. The average, um sort of most vehicles are working around the 400 volts at the minute, but everyone wants to try and prove their self and better their self. They try something different.

:: 03:54

Andy Brooke

So do you think they'll kind of all eventually rationalize to the point that they are quite similar over the years?

:: 04:01

Dan Mayo

um Yeah, well, but battery technology is not going to be leaps and bounds of improvement. It will get better, um but it relies on customer demand.

So, everyone now, you can see in in the market, everyone's against Tesla and spray painting and graffiti in their cars.

So, if manufacturers are not developing stuff, we're we're going to be stuck. So, there's some interesting yeah interesting things in industry coming.

:: 04:30

Andy Brooke

Yeah, I mean, we're we're noticing a lot more towards, um well, I've noticed particularly, I went to a few trade shows recently and Chinese stuff is absolutely everywhere. And BYD seems to be really the the brand leader in the UK at the moment. Are you coming across any of that stuff yet?

:: 04:47

Dan Mayo

um we've We've seen a couple of BYDs only just sort of product testing. So we had a look at what the product is, had it in, driven it, trying to find what information we can get.

:: 05:42

Dan Mayo

But being Chinese, they're keeping it right close to their heart. It's like you you'll find what's the BYD software like? Is it usable? or Is it user-friendly for obviously it would have been written in Chinese. So when it comes to European or American markets, what's the translation like?

:: 05:20

Andy Brooke

So the aftermarket could really struggle on some the Chinese products if they're not towing the European legislation and giving us the data that we need is what you're saying there.

:: 05:30

Dan Mayo

that's the thing is with electric cars, we've all we've all looked into OBD, which is the Envolve Diagnostics, and everyone's sort of adopted it. So most things are universal.

When you get an electric car in, you'll get a fork code up, and You don't know where you're going unless you've got manufacturers software.

It's a hard market.

:: 05:50

Andy Brooke

so have you worked on Teslas at all?

:: 05:53

Dan Mayo

We've done a few Teslas. no They seem to be very reliable. the only um bits we tend to do is the wear and tear components of brake, suspension,

things that, yeah, sort wear out. We're starting to see a few air conditioning ones. um Got a body bodywork one at the minute that's been sent to us by an insurance company because nobody wants to work on it.

:: 06:15

Andy Brooke

Is that parts availability?

:: 06:17

Dan Mayo

yeah, parts availability. Tesla got a clever system. So you have to order the parts, pay for them, and then they tell you when it's going to arrive.

:: 06:28

Andy Brooke

Oh, great.

:: 06:30

Dan Mayo

So... the The repair is a parking damage. It knocked the corner of the bumper off.

But once you price it all up with all the parking sensors and bits that were all broken in it, it comes to nearly £4,000.

:: 06:43

Andy Brooke

And if you're a body shot that's working on a key-to-key time and have to give out a higher car, you definitely shouldn't want to.

:: 06:49

Dan Mayo

that Well, they they can't give you an end date when the parts are going to be available. So this could be a month, six months.

:: 06:55

Andy Brooke

That's pretty unique in the automotive industry.

you know I mean, I've obviously worked in a long time like yourself, and normally we know we've got a good idea. Okay. Post-COVID, it was difficult, but that's just ridiculous.

:: 08:05

Andy Brooke

Wow. Okay.

:: 07:10

Dan Mayo

i mean I think Tesla's marketing strategy seems to be sell the product, don't worry about the after sales.

:: 07:15

Andy Brooke

I suppose, again, they're they're they're a tech company make cars, not a car company that make EVs. It's the other way around, really, isn't it?.

But so yeah, I mean, going back to the Chinese stuff, you obviously where you're based, you're seeing you're you're just outside the the clean air zone, effectively, aren't you?

:: 07:37

Dan Mayo

Yeah, with well, I actually live in the clean air zone, so of ah we do deal with all them problems, DPF issues and stuff where people are not doing the mileage.

where we're based in Surrey, is just outside the clean air zone.

But where our workshop is, it's quite a unique area. lot of people work in the city there. So everyone's adopted the Teslas and the EVs to to commute into work.

:: 08:02

Andy Brooke

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So you get a lot of them in Surrey then basically you got a belt of electric vehicles.

:: 08:08

Dan Mayo

yes this but the the Well, speaking to a lot of customers, the reason they're doing it is they benefit in kind.

They can have an EV as a company car, pay nothing for it, effectively, and free charging at work. So... so It's costing you nothing to go to work when you can charge for free at work using a company's electricity.

:: 09:30

Dan Mayo

Yeah,

:: 08:25

Andy Brooke

and And I think, was actually talking to someone earlier, I think they eat the um end of this month, though there's going to be few tax changes, isn't there? There's going to be, not quite sure what's going on there, but there's going to be definitely a few.

Dan Mayo

Yeah, I think EVs are taxable now as well, and they get the luxury car tax. So if you want a good EV,

you' you get you you've normally gone above that luxury car tax bracket, so you're getting stung for the tax, which has now dropped people out of buying these girls. or What's the point of buying an EV if there's no benefits in

:: 08:56

Andy Brooke

So that was your sort of like Porsche Taycan and Audi GT market, that sort of thing, was it? Wow.

:: 09:02

Dan Mayo

it? The Taycan and the GTs, you can pick up for nothing, effectively, now. So, good products, but very…cost effective if you want to buy one. The Aldi's are not too bad, but the Porsche is their software. They keep a lot of it under wraps. It's very difficult to access it.

So the Taycan is our next port call that we're looking into becoming a bit more involved in repairing them because there's lots them out there and nobody that can do them apart from the dealers.

:: 09:32

Andy Brooke

So just going into your business a bit more. So just tell me fundamentally, what do you do out there?

:: 09:39

Dan Mayo

we we try and specialise in EVs, but we because we've got a lot of diagnostic equipment, manufacturer-specific, We get a lot of work from other garages coming to us. So, we are the in-between between the main dealer and the independent. So, we do lots of programming and lots of updating that other garages can't do. It's quite interesting and we get a lot of work that tends to be um from customers that don't want to go to a dealer, but they don't want to go to the independent.

:: 10:05

Andy Brooke

So you you did as well from what I remember last time I went down, you did a bit of rescue work for EVs as well, didn't you?

:: 10:10

Dan Mayo

So we... Yeah, we've looked into a little bit with Motorsport UK ah regarding EVs coming into motorsport and how um to do it.

and Went and done a bit of work with them and explained all the challenges, what the risks were. And it's yeah quite an interesting place to be because obviously EVs are here to stay effectively. You can't do nothing about it. So it's how are we going to carry on doing motorsport without an electric vehicle involved?

:: 10:37

Andy Brooke

So you've done a bit of race engineering background as well.

:: 10:40

Dan Mayo

Yeah, I've done that. In,: 2016

:: 10:55

Andy Brooke

Were they using hybrid systems out there?

:: 10:59

Dan Mayo

well, they're using the McLaren Al-Tora.

which is a hybrid car. But for motorsport purposes, they have to disable disconnect the high voltage system.

The problem what motorsport has done, sort of panicked and gone, oh, can't have electric cars.

Just put a stop to them. So McLaren were quite clever. They just reverse engineered the hybrid system off the vehicle. And the GT cars should be a hybrid, but they're not.

:: 11:27

Andy Brooke

That's crazy. Funny enough, I wanted to build a sort of Westfield catering based hill climb car with a Tesla motor, but I spoke to the FIA and they just went, and not not a chance.

:: 11:42

Dan Mayo

No, we were in talks with Motorsport UK, the technical guy at Motorsport UK as well.

We actually built a hybrid hill like sprint hill climb rally car.

which was good. Until rule number one was we can change the rules at any time. When an inspection, they go no, we don't like that.

:: 12:23

Andy Brooke

Oh, God. But it's got to come in. You know, it's got to come in. We've got Formula E.

We've got rallying with electric. So, know, it's got to come in at some point.

:: 12:10

Dan Mayo

The reason behind there was is Formula E and Rallying work under their own ah guidance and their own legislation, so it's nothing to do with them.

Andy Brooke

Right.

:: 12:23

Dan Mayo

when we were building the race car, went through the FIA regulations. And they are quite straightforward and they're safe.

But nobody wants to be the first person to say yes and then something happens.

:: 12:36

Andy Brooke

Yeah, it's the same in drag racing, you know, involved with drag racing that we got one electric beetle, black current, which is a fantastic bit case. and Absolutely unbelievable. And, um, again, it's, um, it's effectively an exhibition vehicle still. It can't be running in competition Yet.

:: 12:51

Dan Mayo

Yeah, that's that's exactly what I had to do with um my hybrid car. We'd done some demonstration sprints to show the safety involved in it.

And that was run under demo reives run as a demo vehicle. So had to run at the start the pack, do a demo run, and that was it. And you to put it away for the day.

:: 13:07

Andy Brooke

I mean,it's got to come in. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind. It's got to come in. You've got to get used to the to the, as I call it, the the orange cables.

:: 13:16

Dan Mayo

Yeah, well, it's when they start using other alternative fuels, that's going to be a bit more interesting.

:: 17:41

Andy Brooke

Yeah, that's ah that's a whole other subject. So while we're on it then, what do you think about hydrogen?

:: 13:26

Dan Mayo

um Everyone, it's quite funny because you speak to a lot of customers. They go, I'm not getting an electric vehicle. I'm going to do hydrogen. It's nice and simple. Like you just put hydrogen in your drive.

When you look at the regulations involved hydrogen, you're looking at extreme pressures.

We're looking at sort 900 bar pressures. ah we We had a Mirai for a prototype in. Well, the problem the problem was is it had to get sold because there's no filling stations for it.

two fueling stations in London. Both of them have gone offline because they had an issue. The next charging station was in Birmingham. But the range has only got that 110 mile range.

So if I'd have filled it up in Birmingham, why not go home?

:: 14:15

Dan Mayo

yeah this is like you're not going to see like you see fuel trucks up and down the motorway you're not going to see a hydrogen truck it'll take it'll take cities off the yeah uk map

:: 14:48

Andy Brooke

Yeah, at minus 256 degrees Celsius, whatever it is. I can't quite remember now, 67, whatever. Going boom. Yeah, that wouldn't be good. So yeah, we'll go back onto EVs for a minute. And so obviously you've been doing this for quite a long time. what What's the sort of most common fault set you're getting with EVs when and an actual electric vehicle breaks down, the electrical system breaks down?

:: 14:48

Dan Mayo

um and recently we've been seeing quite a lot of um isolation faults obviously where the high voltage system gets a short circuit to body or or some something that obviously this uh this system is always monitored so making sure the high voltage system doesn't make contact with the chassis or so you don't end up with 400 volts through your legs

:: 15:10

Andy Brooke

So what causes that then, generally?

:: 15:12

Dan Mayo

a few vehicles we'll see at the minute is air conditioning the air conditioning compressor is part of the high voltage circuit so what they do is they ring up for a price for an air conditioning service you give them a price they go that's expensive if my local um quick repair centre will say we can do it for £39 and they go there, get a cheap air conditioning service probably wrong wrong oil so like the peg oil in it specific non-conductive so you end up with wrong non-conductive oil in it we get two days later once it's all gone around the car they go far up and it won't start .

Battery casings as well leaking. So...

Water inside the batteries, yeah. We've done done a couple of... One manufacturer we see quite a lot using and plastic lids with aluminium bodies.

Andy Brooke

Oh,

:: 16:02

Dan Mayo

When emilium oxidises, it starts breaking up the sealant that they use.

So it breaks the sealant up. The sealant doesn't oh hold it watertight or airtight no more. Go for a puddle, the car comes with stop. Yeah, it's a risk, shuts the car down. Take it.

:: 16:18

Andy Brooke

so you've got to take the battery out and then basically do a full battery strip and rebuild at that point.

:: 16:20

Dan Mayo

You've got a strip hole battery. We've got one that we end up putting two modules in.

So two modules, obviously, see were in about two centimetres water. know Well, they can't be reused again.

A couple of new modules in there. This manufacturer now does a repair case in.

which is quite good comes with the fitting kits, just swap it over and you're back on the road again.

:: 16:50

Andy Brooke

And then ah it's all about the ceiling, isn't it? You know, it's, um, yeah.

:: 16:54

Dan Mayo

It's sealing, pressure testing. couple of manufacturers you do dielectric testing. So you do a dielectric test on the battery so what you have to do, you have to do a dielectric test, you have to all numbers of all the modules in place, a pressure test on it, and then it gives you an authorization code, like a checksum, which then you put into the diagnostic machine, which then tells the battery to fire up and it's okay.

But until you do that,

:: 17:22

Andy Brooke

ah like In layman's terms, what you're saying here, Dan, is you can't just go and swap a bloody battery. It's just, there's no chance.

Dan Mayo

no

Andy Brooke

You have to spend, I think the equipment off the top my head was about 12K just to go to perform that test on that battery.

Dan Mayo

That's it, yeah.

:: 17:37

Andy Brooke

So, I mean can you rebuild all batteries on all electric vehicles?

:: 17:43

Dan Mayo

You can do it, but it's where you get the modules from.

So second-hand modules, but we've got one at the minute we're having a bit of a trouble with.

The second-hand module supplied, well two a battery has to be balanced. So all the inless cells and modules have to be at the same voltage.

This car's done over 100,000 miles. The guy bought it cheap thinking he can just but put a Duracell battery in it and he'll be driving around with his cheap car forever. So we disassembled the batteries, he supplied his own modules, but he thought, I'm going to get the best ones possible.

So his modules are too strong for the rest of the pack.

So now it's all out of balance.

We've done manual balancing on it. We've done absolutely everything. But after a couple of days of parked up, it just throws its toys out of the pram.

:: 18:34

Andy Brooke

So what we're saying here is, so the state of health of the battery, as in what's remaining of its original life, as in what percentage it did compared to its original percentage.

you So it started off at 100 and this might be like 70%. So you'd have to get a module that had a 70% state of health to balance it out is what you're saying.

:: 18:55

Dan Mayo

Yeah.

That's it. But then he's looking for the equipment that can measure this as well.

Rhat's another thing on the market is how do you how do you test a battery? The only way of testing a battery is putting it under load.

But do you want to put a high-voltage battery under load with the lid off in your workshop?

:: 19:13

Andy Brooke

Not particularly, no.

so overall, you can rebuild most stuff, though. That's what we're saying here.

:: 19:18

Dan Mayo

yeah a lot a lot of this stuff is good. And there is there's a few suppliers now. There's one based in Northern Ireland that particularly breaks EVs. So You can get used EV parts, which is is quite good because that's one of our ethos with our business is trying to help customers where possible by, we call it of green parts. So you buy a used part to keep an EV. The whole point of going EV is being green and environmentally friendly. But if you're having to buy new parts that are being shipped from the other side of the world, and produced and it's not really that green. So if we can get hold of a used part that will fit, and this is the biggest problem, is coding it and programming it.

So a lot of things have got serial numbers and chassis numbers burnt into the E-Problems that you can't get out.

:: 20:12

Andy Brooke

you absolutely nailed it there because i mean it's not very green when you can't actually fix things that are supposed to be green is it you know

:: 20:18

Dan Mayo

Yeah. And because it's high voltage, you look in independence, not independent or, um, yeah, tier two parts supplies and not, not making these components. Cause they're like, well, what's the point is we can't get the information on it. We don't know what to do. It's quite, quite good. Now, like we started to see, um, likes of Delphi and TRW and Febby is starting to do suspension components for a lot of these cars, whereas before they were locked down, you couldn't get them apart from the manufacturer.

:: 20:50

Andy Brooke

So here's is one to throw you. So who do you think makes the best batteries currently?

Dan Mayo

ah no manufacturer makes his own battery. Yeah.

:: 20:59

Andy Brooke

No, no. But I mean, what okay, what vehicles fitted with the most reliable battery? I'll put it another way there.

Dan Mayo

the The Tesla setup seems to be the most reliable at the minute is the way that they run they run it. So you can have one or two modules drop down and it won't affect the whole pack. It will just sort reduce range by a little bit, but you might not even notice it.

It'll only flag up on a diagnostic check.

Andy Brooke

Yeah, that's right.

Dan Mayo

But some of these manufacturers run complete series setup.

one One goes, it's like Christmas tree lights. You get one module, that's it, and then you've got to replace whole battery.

them ones water ingress. um The reason we took it on was to try and to see what we could do and see if it can be repaired. He was quoted by the manufacturer, £31,000.

Andy Brooke

What's car worth?

Dan Mayo

six

It's not environmentally friendly to keep that on the road, is it?

:: 21:56

Andy Brooke

So just out of interest, how much did you charge him then when you did that? i know he did it probably as an experiment as well, so… I suppose the question is, was it less than the the price of the car?

:: 22:06

Dan Mayo

ah Yes, yeah, he's he's made some he's he've made a thing and we've learned out of it.

But that's that's the same thing we said about components being locked to chassis.

We swapped all the ECUs over, but the current sensor was on a different hardware version, which then didn't work.

So we had to have it all apart again put even more bits, swap. Even though on the the diagnostic program, it said it had worked, it hadn't physically.

that's the problem we've with this.

It's what do you charge for it?

:: 22:36

Andy Brooke

Yeah, because effectively you're doing reverse engineering R&D for manufacturers who can't be bothered to have stuff fix themselves.

Dan Mayo

No, manufacturers are just, yeah, they just go, oh, that's broken. That means replacing fix it

:: 22:51

Andy Brooke

So 31 grand. And how old was the car? Out of interest.

:: 22:55

Dan Mayo

10 years old. Yeah, we've just dropped out of its eight-year warranty.

The rules are quite interesting because they say they've eight-year battery warranty. We found out one manufacturer, but that's only for degradation.

Dan Mayo

For failure, it comes under the normal three-year warranty.

:: 23:30

Andy Brooke

Ooh, now that's cheating. Now, most people would not know that, would they?

Dan Mayo

No, this vehicle we had in that we'd done the repair on, you're like, well, I'll take it back under the warranty. So, well, it's still got more than 70% state of health.

It's within warranty.

Well, the module's failed, which is under the manufacturer's were man manufacturing warranty, not the high voltage warranty.

:: 23:37

Andy Brooke

That's just simply ridiculous. So they're really bending the rules there, aren't they, with that?

:: 23:39

Dan Mayo

Yeah, they're they're trying what they want, and it depends on who you speak to it the manufacturers or the dealership. um i've I've had problem with my own van recently. It's a new 24 plate van.

Not many miles. should been should get 180 miles out of it, they're claiming.Over winter, I'm getting 80 miles out So i'm losing 100 miles.

Took it back to the manufacturer and they're like, oh, yeah, well, batteries wear out with age.

Okay. So this van's less than six months old. And it's like, yeah, well, it gets with with mileage in there. It's done 6,000 miles. She's telling him me i'll get half the range in 6,000 miles. In miles, to scrap. Yeah.

it's going to be scrap

and there And the guy was like, oh, yeah, what you got to keep the, but if you keep the battery plugged in, so they call it sort of like maintenance or something, maintaining the battery, yeah.

Andy Brooke

Maintaining. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Mayo

So keep the battery plugged in and it keeps it warmed up. was like, okay, so how do I get to work with an extension lead? he was like, I don't understand.

00.24.42.43

Dan Mayo

The problem is you find in with EVs is lack of understanding through customers,

ah mechanics and front the house staff. So for, the industry's changed and with with mechanics, people are sort of stuck.

They don't always move forward. Not saying all mechanics, some people are really positive want to go forward. It's always, ah used used to be a mechanic You get that when you're out with your friends pop down a pub, or someone's got a question.

I used to be a mechanic. I used to fix my old Cortina, and now it's easy. You just plug the computer in, it tells you what's wrong. So, like, if it was that easy, I'd be rich.

:: 25:22

Andy Brooke

Yeah, absolutely. they And I think as well, you know, I think there's just a general misunderstanding of electric vehicles. I mean, but I suppose we're painting a little bit of a bad picture on this chat, really, aren't we, about who's unreliable? But actually, I mean, you and I have been driving a few years.

um I don't have any problems, I've got to admit.

:: 25:39

Dan Mayo

The only problem that we mainly see is lack of maintenance. And like as Tesla are the worst for it because it's on modern Teslas, they said it's no service interval.

The car tells you when it needs working.

A lot times we've had cars in for MOTs, three years old, and the tyres are down to the canvas.

Andy Brooke

know. I've seen it. I've seen it.

Dan Mayo

And you're like, well, it doesn't need servicing. Have you still to put tyres on it?

:: 26:08

Andy Brooke

just recapping all this, EVs are here to stay. There's people like you, Dan, who are kind of leading the way in the market these days who are you know able to fix EVs. People are able to come to you. I remember seeing when you a few years ago when you had but a Nissan Leaf with a battery pack in to go and plug into people to get them moving again and stuff like that. So you, you know.

:: 26:30

Dan Mayo

there's some Yeah, there's some things out there. he's The vehicle-to-grid stuff is some of the some of the Chinese manufacturers have got that.

Andy Brooke

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Dan Mayo

um I looked at of the American manufacturers yeah the other day with one their cars, and they got car-to-car charging. So you can use your car to charge someone else's car.

But that car doesn't exist no more. So they come forward.

:: 26:54

Andy Brooke

Oh, this is one that you and I spoke of, which is Fisker, isn't it we had it?

:: 26:57

Dan Mayo

yeah yeah these two I've done some research into it.

There's 260 of them registered in the UK.

But there's nobody can fix them because they everything's software related or over-the-air updates. But because the company don't exist no more, there's no one to do the over-the-air stuff.

:: 27:15

Andy Brooke

I mean, there's some models that I've seen, I'm not going to mention them, but I've gone, what is that? And who makes that? And and then you sort of do a bit of research and think, Christ, you know, there's not going be many of those sold in the UK. Who would buy one of those?

And again, you know, as as we say, when it's under three years, manufacturer warranty, happy days. And after that, we're just going to be scratching our heads and who the hell's going to fix it? You know?

:: 27:37

Dan Mayo

nice that's what i think is some of these chinese brands um that lot people are getting them on company car leases so it's quite good but once the car you've had your two or three a year lease company car scheme you give it back if there's no market for people to fix them what's going to happen with them we're going to be dumped with loads of chinese vehicles on our streets

:: 28:01

Andy Brooke

It’ll be just devalued to hell. And then you've got another environmental problem where you need to get rid of them. You know you need to strip and get the cells out and all the rest of it. you know that That becomes a bigger issue again.

:: 28:11

Andy Brooke

So for your business moving forward, are you trying to recruit more people? you trying to get apprentices involved and that sort of thing?

:: 28:18

Dan Mayo

We've tried apprentices, but like lot of people know in the motor industry, apprentices can be difficult to work with because youtube knows more than i do.

because he can type into how do fix a Tesla into YouTube, and if somebody has done a podcast or a video of it, that's gospel. It might not be the right way, but that's how you fix gas, according to apprentices now.

And then to be doing the sort of work we do, ah high voltage, live live working on batteries, live working on EVs, you need someone with a head on their shoulders, someone that's a little bit switched on.

Problem is, like everyone knows in the industry, that a good mechanic is being kept by the main dealers. And they're getting paid extortionate money at the minute.

The problem is with it is because we've got no one coming in at the lower end, and why would you come in? that's That's the problem with the the whole world. It's probably pop not population, but the whole um apprentice system in in the in any industry.

Who wants to go and work in a shop or as an apprentice for £5 an hour when you can do a silly dance on TikTok and get £100,000 your bank account?

:: 29:35

Andy Brooke

yes, it's getting people to stay in the industry and then trying to pay the money. So, I mean, we're going to move forward to it to like what you're doing is much more technology-based industry rather than a roaming stuff with spanners and hitting them with hammers in it.

:: 29:51

Dan Mayo

Yeah. The motor industry is evolving week in, week out. You look at the modern cars now, you've got CAN bus, you've got FlexRay, you've got fibre optics. um You need to be a multi-skilled person. You can't just be someone that can take a clutch out or change brakes.

You're looking at a digital visual waveforms and signals, trying to understand what's going on. You've got flashing light pulses and and stuff that's communicating.

And then you've got the modern vehicles that are working DOIP protocols. So we're looking at Ethernet systems and like computer programming. It's not like careers advisors when when I was at school was like, oh, you're not very bright. Go and be a mechanic.

so And that's not the industry no more. The industry has gone the other way.

Andy Brooke

And we're going to have to pay proper money for proper, you know, proper. But as you say, it's it's it's just at the beginning trying to get people in is difficult.

:: 30:51

Andy Brooke

No, it's yeah that's that's the problem. it's it's um It's having that knowledge to start off with as well. you know so So your business is on the up then. I believe you you're moving premises or have you moved yet?

:: 30:54

Dan Mayo

Yeah, we've just taken another unit on now to deal with it because the problem is when you're taking a battery out one of these cars, you need if anyone's taken a battery out of a ah Tesla, the battery on a Tesla is as big between the wheels.

So you need a space the same size as that to put it in. Obviously, because of the risk of firing that, you can't repair it underneath the car because you're not going to get out And you're going burn the car down as well.

but we need to keep the industry going and manufacturers need to keep supplying us with the tools and the knowledge to do it.

:: 31:34

Andy Brooke

Yeah. And I mean, the hit as you said at the beginning, they're absolutely here to stay. I looked at the the SMMT numbers on sales for the last sort of year and it's just going, you know,

and up and up. And then with: 2030

:: 31:52

Dan Mayo

It might not go full electric. I think a lot of manufacturers are throwing lot into hybrid. They're hybridizing everything now.

But we're still going to be dealing with the same level of voltages, same components. So it's got to be one of them things you've got to embrace to stay in business.

:: 32:12

Andy Brooke

And that's it. And that that would be your message to everybody out there, basically.

:: 51:50

Dan Mayo

Yeah, go and do a bit of training.

Get an idea of how the vehicle works. You haven't got um Go fully V, go and do level one, level two. just You've got an understanding of these vehicles when they're in, what not to do, what not to jack them up on.

Tesla's is a good one. amount of MIT stations we've been to.

was like, oh yeah, how'd you jack them up? Oh, we jack them up on this bit here, this bit of aluminium. You do realize that's the battery casing. What?

:: 32:54

Andy Brooke

I took one of our Teslas for MOT, first MOT. And I know the MOT test, he's a friend of mine. He just said, no idea what to do.

the the The ministry haven't told me what to do. I don't know how to test it. I don't know how to put it into test mode. i don't know how to put it on the brake test or I don't know how to jack it up. And he admitted all of this, you know.

So I actually went in with him and actually ran through the test, put on the screen, put it into the different modes to do it. But again, how many MOT stations would know that? Yeah, probably none.

:: 33:17

Dan Mayo

Well, use one MOT station. ah Obviously, I went in and trained the guys on yeah all these EVs and how to move them, what to do.

But a lot of them, I'll get lots of Tesla customers ringing us up. Can you MOT my team more cars? Just take it anywhere. It's like everywhere I've run, refuse to do it.

Quite interesting. But this is what we're going to see with these Chinese manufacturers. If people won't work on a Tesla, Tesla are quite good as a manufacturer. If you go on their website, you can get all the information off there.

So how to work on them, how to jack them very, very easily. But when we're going to get these Chinese manufacturers coming for a MOT, um you you're probably going to have to take a course in Chinese or have a good understanding of what you're doing on these vehicles.

:: 34:54

Andy Brooke

yeah, it's worrying to be fair. It is, but hopefully, you know, they'll they'll get the gist of what we need over here because they're not going to success in the aftermarket. And, you know, the prices of secondhand vehicles, I'd say, would just devalue so much.

:: 34:24

Andy Brooke

So what would you say to garages out there? What do they need to do? Where do they need to start then?

Dan Mayo

I'd say just go go and find your local training provider or or some one of these IMI courses and get yourself involved in EVs.

Just have a look.

It's very, very simple. Some of the Tesla service times are ridiculous. a think a three-year service on a Tesla, the labor time is not absolutely phenomenal.

Yeah. I think about 2.8 hours.

And all you're doing is an inspection and a pollen filler.

Andy Brooke

Oh, so that's a good moneymaker then.

Dan Mayo

So, yeah, it's a good money maker for you.

:: 35:00

Dan Mayo

One of the other manufacturers, brake fluid change is £350 at a local know how much.

Andy Brooke

And is it difficult to do it?

Dan Mayo

i've done No, although you can go on me on their website and follow them. It's just with a pressurized brake fluid system, as you would on most cars.

Andy Brooke

Yeah. Okay. So, so pretty straightforward then.

Dan Mayo

so But you just have to disconnect the high-voltage system in a way. But it doesn't justify £350 worth of labor.

Andy Brooke

Yeah.

Andy Brooke

So you charge 150 quid and you quits in with it.

Dan Mayo

Yeah, it's in for a 20-minute job, that's it.

Dan Mayo

So there's lots of money to be made.

Don't turn this work away.

EVs are here to stay. yeah, if anyone anyone's interested in any more information on hybrid or electric vehicles, give us a call. um Look us up on our website. So we're MMS Technic.

Our website is mmstechnic.co.uk. You can have a look on there. Have look around our website, see what we do. Got any questions on any EVs that you'd like, we're quite happy to have a chat with you.

Training as well, if you're interested in training, we've got a good training supplier or provider that we use that work nationally. So we can put you in contact with them, get your best a source of the IMI training.

And, yeah, any general questions or any advice, just give us a call.